"trophy hunters" what is a trophy?

[ARO]

over the last 5 years or so, i have seen a big influx of guys saying they are trophy hunters. what is a trophy? nowadays, if you have an eight point in the bed of your truck, and stop by the local store for a drink, and 5 guys come over to look at it. 3 of them will mostly for sure say, he'd a been a nice one next year, or i woulda never shot that.

NEWS FLASH!!!! every deer would be a nicer, bigger deer the next year.

so what is a trophy, 125 the minimum for p&y, its that a trophy deer? if that is your standard to which you measure a trophy why would you shoot anything less? on the same token, B&C says a trophy deer is 170, so why would anybody shoot a 140-150? if you want 170's, you have to let the 140-150's walk.

i think that all of these hunting video's and tv show's are the down fall of the "sport" of hunting.

to me hunting is about spending time in the woods, scouting, trying to execute the perfect set up, for if you see any deer, you have done something right. and most of all spending time with your hunting buddies, and sharing the experience.
hunting is not about how many pats on the back you get, or how many mounts you can put on the wall.

i just think some people are so wrapped up in the commercial hunting hoopla, and put so much pressure on themselves, that they have forgot what hunting is all about, relax - have fun - and shoot a couple deer.

what do ya'll think?l

[freedomrules3]

good post Shane...
heres my take. i have never once really thought of myself as a trophy deer hunter, just a hunter who is looking for a big buck. i agree that the comercialism of hunting has put some farfetched ideas into hunters heads. seeing huge trophy deer shot easily on tv makes it seem so easy lmao. i grew up in West Virginia , where you could only hunt bucks at the time. seeing a mature buck back in those days was nearly impossible. hell just to get a buck legally without snatching a doe for meat was a great feat at the time. i managed to kill a few mature bucks but the genetics werent there. to me it wasnt about a big buck but more about the great taste of venison and how much i liked it. i soon found out does eat better

nowadays i let more bucks walk for a couple of reasons. does definitely fair better on the table than any buck i have ever taken. i like to "see" more bucks in the woods than i do. i think the doe to buck ratio needs to be brought closer together. i also let them walk in hopes they survive, although i generally hunt public land, and the chances are slimmer.

I have let bucks walk that i know 75% of hunters would take. 1 that comes to mind is the 9 pointer that a guy shot first morning , i had seen the deer more than a few dozen times. i knew the deer, by his habits was going to be taken, but i still let it walk for 2 years straight. it met its demise first morning of rifle season. the guy was tickled with what he had shot.

i like everyone at one point in the season put too much pressure on yourself. its just a matter of knowing you are running out of time i guess. its also just the nature of the game. when you know your getting a lesson on hunting sometimes it can be hard on the ego lol.

a trophy deer is commonplace to me......
any deer taken with a bow is a trophy to me
any deer taken while stalking is a trophy
any deer "you " decide you want to try and outsmart and do is a trophy, be it a doe or a buck
anytime i let a buck walk, i consider it a trophy
nearly 90% of the deer taken are trophy's imo the other 10% are just pure luck .
i hope i never quit having fun as a hunter. hopefully that will be for years to come. do i have a desire to get a record book buck? yeppers but when i do i will only want a bigger one or a wider one lol. until that happens i will continue to enjoy deer hunting and will for years to come afterwards Lord willing.

[Twanger]

Taking a deer with a bow is a significant accomplishment.
A trophy? Well, that depends on your personal objectives and experience.

For example...
Finally nailing an old doe that has been busting you like toothpicks all season is a great 'memory trophy' although it won't get you in the magazines. Nailing a scraggly yearling 5 pointer that just happens to walk by your stand doesn't require as much hunting skill by comparison, but many people would consider any buck a greater trophy than the old doe.

In early October I finally nailed a doe that had given me the slip or busted me for 6 straight weeks. Man, that felt good. I've been letting bucks less than 8 points walk all season, and having them in bow-range is accomplishment enough.

Now, if a person has yet to take any buck, I'd not complain if they shot a small buck. Heck, it's a trophy at that point in their hunting career, and a significant accomplishment. I remember year after year going scoreless, and getting busted all the time before I learned how, where, and when to hunt a particular stand. I still remember my first deer kill with a bow, a doe, and it's one of my greatest 'memory trophies.'

[tailnbone]

I consider any deer taken to be a trophy. After all, it was a life that was taken. My first Ohio buck would have probably been a 14 pointer, but he was a half rack with 7 on one side, lots of mass, and was truly a trophy to me. When I went to check him in some guys did come over to the truck and checked him over and said "thats a shame" and " he would have been a real nice buck next year". Funny you should mention that aro. I thought it was a real nice buck this year and its definetly a trophy to me. I guess it depends on the goals you set for yourself. I have a 4 point that was my very first deer taken, got it in West Virginia with a 30.06 at 150 yards......1 shot in the neck. He did a flip, went down and didn't move. I was exstatic. That deer will always be a trophy to me. It wouldn't measure up as a trophy to alot of guys because it wasn't 150" or bigger, but I must say it was a decent size for WVa. Heck, it wouldn't have mattered to me if my first one was a spike, it still would be a trophy. And if some day I'm lucky enough to get a 150" or bigger then it will just be a Bigger trophy.
Trophies are in the eyes of the beholder, not the standards set forth by p & y, b & c, people on tv or in magazines. JMO.

[hatracked]

I shoot whichever deer makes my blood go to racing while I am hunting. Some days thats a spike some days it takes a big rack. Everyone of them is a memorable experience or trophy at the moment I shoot it or I dont shoot em. I have also tangled with does and small racked bucks for weeks on end only to finally win or lose the chess game for good. Thats why I go the chess game. Whomever wants to play ok with me. Sometimes its the difficulty of the shot or the set up that turns a normal deer into a "trophy" real quick.

I too am somewhat sick by the direction hunting has gone in the media but I am out there shooting video for media myself. At first when hunting video became popular on cable it seemed like we were going to get fair shakedowns with shows that showed people like the Fitzgeralds really hunting and killing deer like we kill at home fair chase.

The inevitable competition came on and it didnt take long to get to whos showing the most and biggest racks. I remember the years where it was " the biggest buck ever taken on video". Before that it was Headline..." 18 bow kills on tape". Soon as you start putting that kind of expectation on content people are going to go to much easier lengths to get film and better place to improve chances of success on unusually big racked animals. That of course leads to no mans land deer hunting and a separation of your own reality from theirs.

Unfortunately, big antlers make big impressions, and there isn't a man who has ever set foot in the woods that doesnt secretyly or outwardly share the wish to kill the biggest racked buck around. Some take it very seriously, some dont, but becuase we all admire them highly, thats what video folks are cramming down your throat. No matter how you feel hunting needs to be portrayed you can expect that forever, mass media will show it in the way it appeals to the most viewers. Its their job.

I have been shooting and gathering video for awhile now and am in no big rush to "release a video". At first i thought I could probably muster enough footage of turkey to make a tape from this past year, but the more I thought about it the more I thought it is going to take years to produce a video with enough example footage to really show what a real turkey hunt takes. It will take lots of real hunting to recreate enough events to truely make the video educational.

And theres the difference for me and where I am personally going to aim my efforts. My production plan sucks and really doesnt fit in with an agenda of mass media and or top notch marketing. But at a snails pace I know I can create a turkey hunting video that will truel educate and show a newcomer or and a old timer a real turkey hunting video well worth watching.

Certainly while I am at it I am going to continue making little video clips exposing potential hunting trips and fishing guides you might want to see. Without a doubt the footage you see will be of some game or trophy success. Why??? Cause thats what the majority of folks want to see and if it happens that footage is of a true"trophy classed" animal, the more folks will want watch it.

The more people watch it the better the promo will do. Like it or not media isnt going to change you'll never get the press to stop featuring the violent, nasty , stuff humans do to each other on the six oclock news either. TV might be better from a more level approach but the average viewer really doesnt give a rats azz about that, they want unusual and exciting. Something different than their own reality.

So while I am still acting as a booking agent ect in my life theres going to be two entirely different representations of hunting shot by my camera. Some for impression and others for education. Both have their place, its up to you the viewer to determine what your willing to watch and deem suitable examples of the sport you participate in.

[eshoremd]

seriously, a trophy to me is any deer that puts more deerburgers on my plate.

[campkingmd]

I guess I have to differ on this. I always assumed a trophy was something special, out of the ordinary and quite frankly a reward for something outstanding wehter it be a animal ,fish or a accomplishment. Everyone's definition is different as are everyone's goals are different.

Websters Dic defines a trophy as
3 : a game animal or fish suitable for mounting as a trophy -- usually used attributively
4 : one that is prized for qualities that enhance prestige or social status

I have to believe that 98% of the hunters out there truely would like nothing more then to shoot a deer that falls under at least one of the websters definitions either 3 or 4. If I am correct then, why would a avid hunter want to shoot a small4 point, after fawn after 4 point after button buck after 6 point after 5point and small 8's for that matter. If your strickly a meat hunter and you have the freezer space in wich you can consume 6 deer a year then OK. But come on guys we know thats far from the norm. Most hunters on average might consume 1 deer a year. I personally don't know anyone who has freezer space for 4 or 5 butchered deer.

If all deer are trophy's why don't guys have spikes and 3 pts and five points mounted on there walls. The only spike bucks or 4pts I have ever seen mounted on the wall were usually a guys first buck with a gun or bow . WHY ?? because at the time it was a true trophy to him. Why when a hunter shoots a larger then normal antlered animal they run it right to the taxidermist. Why not skin it for the meat and throw the antlers away. BECAUSE ITS A TROPHY. Is it really a TROPHY when a hunter kills a small 7 pt , wacks the rack off and then donates the meat. Or do we allow are selfs to justify it by saying any deer is a trophy or he's a trophy in my eyes,hiding behind the false pretence of what a trophy really is meant to stand for. Lets not distort the difference between Trophy and accomplishments Two distinc different catagorys in which I think get confused. With that said I guess you have to ask your self what Do you classify yourself as, a thophy hunter, meat hunter or a little of both .

If you are a trophy hunter then why shoot something you don't mount. If your a meat hunter then why not throw away a big 10 point rack and if your a little of both why not shoot 1 or 2 does for your freezer and pass young bucks up and wait on something to mount on your wall. I don't get it!!!

I would never take away from ones accomplishments, I may question there motives.

Twanger I can't agree more about an wise old doe, a true accompishment to bag one. But is she prized for qualities that enhance prestige or social statusher? Will we mount her?

Probably not. Thats the difference between accomplishment and trophy she is no less of an accomplishment , but no matter how you look at it she will also not be a trophy

[Buckfever]

I guess at first blush, when I hear trophy I think of a particular sized antlered deer. For me it would be a deer that is better than what I've gotten previously. For public land right now it would have to be a decent eight or better. On private land, if I ever find myself in such circumstances again, it would have to be a monster eight but more probably a good 10 pointer or better.

But then we get into the notion of a "Trophy Hunt". And this is where I think I spend most of my time. I guess I would distinguish this idea as one that is dependent on method. For instance, the first buck I had come into a mock scrape and taken, was a trophy hunt. Some of the bucks that have come into my setups this year after I was without a buck tag, I definitely consider trophy hunts. Because I'd never seen those animals, but reading the sign and making the right setups gave me the presence of those animals in bow range. The couple of doubles that I had this year, especially the first one where the animals didn't make it 25 yards. Those were trophy hunts because of the setups and the execution. There was a shot I made just last season at 29.5 yards. Exited the far elbow. When I released that arrow, I knew. That deer went 10 yards looked around and tipped over. The amount of blood sprayed on the snow, it was as if the snow was a canvas to an illustration of shot placement, finding expression in the snow. That was a trophy hunt. And so it goes mostly for me. That the trophy is found in the hunt and in direct proportion to what the hunter brings to the hunt.

[ncboman]

Great post Charlie and well in line with my own thinking. I can make room for at least 15 deer in my freezers btw. ;D

To me a trophy is a buck that qualifies for the P&Y record book or a buck the hunter thought enough of to have mounted.

Good days afield often have highlights that make them special but reality is, they don't often result in a trophy buck.

[hatracked]

If your strickly a meat hunter and you have the freezer space in wich you can consume 6 deer a year then OK. But come on guys we know thats far from the norm. Most hunters on average might consume 1 deer a year. I personally don't know anyone who has freezer space for 4 or 5 butchered deer.

Its the norm here. I can freeze about twenty butchered deer and top it off with a half dozen turkey and 50 lbs of fish and still have freezer space. We eat what we kill around here, my family has been knocking back 10 plus a year for as long as I can remember. Come to think of it many of my neighbors do too. Matter of fact pretty much everyone I know that hunts puts up at least four a year.

This is where i get all flustered up folks. On one hand people cry the blues about media making a mess of the look and direction of hunting today, On the other hand they say nothings a trophy but a BC of PY class animal. Go figure y'all are the reason media will continue to go towards unrealistic hunting examples and move further from the real truths about the honor, responsibility, and priviledge of hunting. Antler awe will be the eventual end of the "trophy" hunters respectful place in the conservation minded community.Think about it , BC PY arent known for conservation efforts or hunters helping the land, they are known for big antlers.

I have six points 8 points spikes three points and a hundred other racks hanging and displayed around my home ,bow targets, office, and even a few in the truck!The meat that you deem a partially acceptable reason for killing a deer became shit long ago! Thank you for your post Charlie you have reminded me of me why I dont fall into that trap of being a "trophy hunter ".

Bowman I am simply dissapointed, I expected much more of a woodsmans point of view from you!

[hatracked]

By the way i regularly stand out back of my wifes house and look over some of my bowkill racks while my dog does her evening romp. Most days, I find myself looking at those spikes three points and all the other unworthy trophies and remember the hunt the things that went into it being successful while I rub my fat gut thats reached that size on a diet of good eating deer meat!

You wont find a single mounted deer head in my house. I gave em all away when I figured out that that head on the wall with the big horns wasn't what its all about.Certainly I still wish for a shot at the big one, but it by no means is the focuss of my reason to be in the woods and shoot deer. What you will find if you dig around is racks of all proportions and a guy who can tell you when where and how every single one of them was killed. Those my friends are trophies.

[ncboman]

Sorry to disappoint you John but I know the difference between my freezer meat and what I have on the wall. The topic IS about trophys anyway.

The P&Y Club's conservation efforts may not be wellknown to you but those of us that help pay the tab sure know.

Here's a few facts from P&Y.

The Club has announced its Conservation Program Grants for the 2004-2005 fiscal year.

Grants, totaling almost $85,000 were awarded to projects and programs around North America, as well as Club activities, in areas of conservation education, wildlife management, pro-bowhunting, research and partnerships.

Over the last seven years alone, the Club has contributed more than $500,000 to conservation and pro-hunting projects throughout North America. The following programs/projects/partnerships are receiving grants:

Chronic Wasting Disease Alliance
Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation
the National Assembly of State Caucuses Program
Ballot Issues Coalition
U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance - Bowhunting Rights Coalition
American Wildlife Conservation Partners
Becoming an Outdoors Woman Program
National Shooting Sports Foundation, public schools video series
Judy Kovar's Heritage Program
Farmers and Hunters Feeding the Hungry Program
International Association of Fish & Wildlife Agencies
Hunting for Tomorrow Foundation
Archery Hall of Fame
National Archery in Schools Program
South Dakota State Univ. - pronghorn research project
Utah State University - mule deer winter range research project
Nevada Dept of Wildlife - deer and elk workshop
Arizona F & G Dept / Purdue Univ. - deer DNA research project
Alaska F & G Dept - wood bison restoration project
National Shooting Sports Foundation - Heritage Trust
Wildlands Center
Orion, the Hunters' Institute
Jack Creek Preserve - youth conservation and bowhunting education
Boone and Crockett Club's Hunt Fair Chase Initiative


www.pope-young.org/

Can you name any other organization that has donated a half million dollars to conservation/ hunting efforts in the past 7 years?

Per the rest; guess you could say I wear two faces.

When I'm hunting locally where there is no real trophy potential, I'm a meat hunter so to speak. When I'm in the midwest, antlers get the call. While I enjoy it both ways, hunting horns on public land is what really turns my keys.

[ARO]

i see some people are taking this to heart. the main reason for the post was to say hunting is about enjoying yourself and shooting a couple deer. and the next time you walk up to the bed of a truck and see a deer in it, congradulate the guy or gal, if we cant say anything positive, its best to say nothing at all!!!

again RELAX - HAVE FUN - SHOOT A COUPLE DEER thats what its all about

[hatracked]

I anticipated this reply from you bowman mostly because I have looked deeper into those organizations that most. My first point of interest is CONSERVATION land stewardship and promoting ethical behaivor by hunters!!!!!!Both those organizations have let that imnage fade while grabbing up all the inch awe they can muster. When you say PY you think score not conservation and ethical behaivor.

Just ask 99 out of 100 hunters what PY and BC does and they will say trophy record keeping organizations. Thats what they are known for and most folks never even get past PY in after an inch score when considering them as a viable force in leading todays hunters towards sound stewardship.

As a steadfast member of what really is a great organization y'all should take note of ducks unlimited and NWTF. They have made conservation their mainstay and they are known for it. They are getting the word out and doing the job they should be doing promoting conservation and the hunters part in it.

Until today reading your post, I havent seen a link or mention of any PY or BC sponsored project for years. Cant say the same about the other two big hunter based conservation organizations I mentioned. They are watched followed and praised regularly for their contributions to conservation and promoting the sport of hunting.

So its about trophies...

Heres what i think. A Kentucky buck Maryland buck or any buck for that fact taken in regions other than my own doesnt deserve equal scoring or consideration in ranking. The minimums for both organizations is absolutely not representative of the overall deer herd in the US. The scoring system while great for determing inches does little to truely represent what consititutes trophy class in any particular area. I can assure you I can draw a crowd behind my truck anywhere in this state with a 115 and not many of them would do anything but say sweet buck.

But .......my favorite 117 inch SC buck which is a super better than average representative of what my state has to offer cant even make the grade. So here you have guys killing bigger than average "TROPHY BUCKS " that are not even looked at by these organizations as viable.

I belong to neither PY or BC and will continue that until the day comes around where they get back to the roots of their origins and truely start representing a sensible hunters responsibility to be stewards of the nations game lands. When they realize horn records are basically USELESS when it comes to anything conservation minded other than deciding who gets to be on the cover of bowhunter magazine or NAW I might give it another chance.

Till then they are just a bunch of score keepers in my eyes. Not saying they dont do well for the woodlands ect, but they sure dont hold it high in their reputations.

Bottom line .... y'all trophy hunters get an immediate drop down the ladder rungs in my eyes. It aint about the horn porn, its about the experiences you encounter in the outdoors. Trophies are anything that can cause something to stand out in ones memory as a great event. Furthermore it definately doesnt take an outside oipinion to qualify that as a trophy.

[tailnbone]

Man, you guys are blowing this topic way out of proportion.

This is almost as bad as a crossbow debate!

Now get back out there and kill your trophy!