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Post by Sharpsman on Apr 2, 2006 15:22:24 GMT -5
Hopefully....I haven't gotten Rick....the owner of this site into trouble by pestering him into starting this Firearms Forum. I'd just like you to know that there probably isn't anyone that has spent more time bowhunting in years past than I have! I hunted with the longbow for 30 years; taking game in Colorado, Idaho, Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, N. Mexico, and Alabama! Howard Hill was my idol as anyone whom has ever followed this man's career has to marvel at his accomplishments! I had at one time a great area to bowhunt; the bottomlands adjacent to the Mississippi River south of Vicksburg, Miss. but all that land was gobbled up by huge clubs and now.....well....you'd better be pretty well heeled to hunt there! So....in the finality of the declining areas to bowhunt.....I took up shooting Black Powder Cartridge Rifles aka BPCR which I can do here on my property where I have a range that allows me to shoot as far back as 1500 yds. if I so desire. Many years ago I had the privledge of shooting with the US Army Rifle Team and that desire has never left me. It's quite a transition going from shooting National Match M1s, M14s, and NRA Match/Palma rifles to the rifles of the 1870-1886 era but don't let anyone tell you that these rifles aren't HIGHLY ACCURATE! They shoot quite well to 1000 yds. and beyond!! Hopefully....if any of you fellows have any questions I'll be glad to answer them to the best of my knowledge! Here's one of my favorite rifles: pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mulhernric800/detail?.dir=14c7&.dnm=88be.jpg&.src=phIt's a C. Sharps 1874 in .50/90 caliber and it shoots a 720 gr. bullet VERY WELL out to 800 yds. and farther....if you want to push it! My two favorites for shooting at 1000 yds. however is a .45/110 of Shiloh Rifle manufacture and a HiWall 1885 action in .45/90 caliber! Both do quite well!
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Post by ncboman on Apr 2, 2006 15:53:45 GMT -5
If/when I'm ever down your way I'm gonna look you up and shoot one o them things and let you judge how I do. ;D Longest shot I ever made was 400yds on a crow with a 30-30 ... in a howling crosswind. I like tryin crows long distance cause it's no loss if I miss. I can usually sneak a little closer to food type animals. Heck of a sight you got on that Sharps. Looks like something off a European airgun. ;D
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Post by Twanger on Apr 2, 2006 16:23:27 GMT -5
Fine lookin' gun Rick. Welcome to the forum. I hope you can get more interest going here in firearms. I've been trying on the ML forum, but it's rough sledding so far!
I'm not much into long range shooting, but would like to try my hand at it one day. I've got a White muzzleloader that will put 5 shots into an inch at 100yds, and I'd love to see what it'll do at 200 or 300.
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Post by Sharpsman on Apr 3, 2006 1:14:50 GMT -5
Twanger The capability of your rifle IMO....is somewhat of a "sleeper"! Those rifles are designed for a sabot and if the truth be known.....a mould could be made to fit the bore diameter and a full bore-sized diameter bullet could be inserted and shoved down with a ramrod WITHOUT A SABOT.....and the darn things would shoot better than they do now!! If you've ever looked at one of the Thompson rifles.....the muzzle is somewhat "counter-bored" to fit the sabot and to help align the bullet for ramming down and this same procedure could be done to a barrel for a bullet WITHOUT A SABOT! In other words it would load similar to what's known as a SLUG GUN with a false muzzle!! :-*In reality....I've never liked the idea of shooting a .44 caliber pistol bullet in a saboted form and that's just what one is doing with all the modern inlines! I'd rather shoot a full-fledged all-lead cast bullet designed at full-bore diameter! I'll make me one now that I'm "retarded"!!
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Post by Twanger on Apr 3, 2006 8:35:06 GMT -5
Rick - I've been coming over to your way of thinking. The boys at HuntAmerica that dig the White's are die-hard conical shooters. For the last few years I've been playing with conicals more than sabots. That group with the White is actually with Hunter280man 460gr Magtip knurled full-bore sized .451-cal conicals. The White seems to shoot conicals better than sabots. Here ya' go... that one flyer ruined a perfectly good one hole group at 100 yds! I also own an Encore, and yes it has the false muzzle, or QLA, and it is not conical friendly. That gun will only do 1.25" 3-shot groups with 240-gr saboted slugs. It's never done what that White has. I'm not that great a shot, and would think the White could go 1/2" in a really good shooter's hands. I'd love to see what kinda group you could turn in with it! I can only hold to about 1/2" at 100yds myself. I have not been able to shoot groups this good with 'traditional' grease-groove conicals, although they come close... more like 1.5" 5 shot groups. The White is bedded and floated up to the scope bell (dollar bill test). The action fits the stock like machined parts. I feel fortunate to own such a gun, and the best part is that it cost under $500! Tom Lodge (Rattus58) set me up with it and had the bedding & floating job done prior to shipping to me. I've thought about making a drop-tube to get the powder down into the chamber without gritting the bore, and swabbing between shots to see if that will tighten the groups any, but I'm working near my own accuracy limits, so it's very hard to tell what helps and what hurts!
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Post by Sharpsman on Apr 3, 2006 16:25:15 GMT -5
Twanger Maybe the reason you haven't been able to shoot good groups with GG conicals is because of bullet hardness! If you were shooting BP.....the burn characteristics are much different than smokeless or some of the other powders. If the bullet were at a ratio of say 40-1/lead-tin....the bullet would obturate whereas with anything much harder.....maybe not so!! Your other option is to WIPE THE BORE before running a bullet down as for the granules of powder causing that "grit" feel!!
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Kurt
Fork Horn
Posts: 7
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Post by Kurt on Apr 3, 2006 22:45:08 GMT -5
Twanger
I'm glad to see someone besides me shooting the knurled bullet. I shoot them in my .40/70ss, .45/90, and .50/90ss with results like yours in your photo. I swage mine at 1-40 or pure lead in several nose stiles and bases.
Kurt
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Post by Twanger on Apr 4, 2006 16:00:47 GMT -5
Kurt - interesting! I didn't know that knurled bullets were used in CF cartridges.
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Kurt
Fork Horn
Posts: 7
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Post by Kurt on Apr 4, 2006 18:42:16 GMT -5
Twanger I don't think many use the swaged bullet. I don't see it on the forums any way. One set back from swaging bullets is the lack of the now day swage die makers making a GG die. Years back a few did make them but back in the 60's and before $250. + were out of my reach except for the Herters GG swage die, but they were limited to pistol bullets. So I knurl them or cast a GG bullet lube it then run it through a swage die to reshape the ogive or true them up but that also has a limit on how far you can go with it. When I knurl the bullet I start with a bullet 2-.004 under bore knurling it will raise the side wall to Groove diameter or if you want them .002 over groove that is were mine work best in some of my Sharps and High walls. The knurled bullet will hold as much lube or more then a GG bullet. I pre heat the bullets with a hot air gun then dip them in melted lube so I get a thin coat of lube then finger seat the bullet in the case expanded to .001 under bullet diameter or use the seating die. I think they work great and shoot very accurate. But there more time consuming to make then the GG bullet. If your mainly a smokeless powder shooter were powder fouling is not an issue then you can use some of the dry lubes like the Mica type of lube and roll the bullet it.
Kurt
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